You’re probably wondering why we interviewed a football player, and the reason is simple: Jamaal Williams is a massive anime fan with a unique and storied perspective on the medium. During Anime Expo 2024, we had to opportunity to sit down with Williams, who played college football for Brigham Young University before being drafted by the Green Bay Packers, moving to the Detroit Lions, and ultimately signing a three-year contract with the New Orleans Saints. Convention goers had the opportunity to see Williams as part of Crunchyroll’s Revenge of the Blerds: Black Love of Anime panel, which focused on the unique relationship between anime and Black American culture.
Our conversation went to a lot of places, starting with the cosplay that Williams himself donned for Anime Expo, moving to the anime that colored his childhood, and finishing up with his perspective on newer generations of anime, how anime blends with music, and how the Black community engages with anime as a whole.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Q: Well, first of all, what made you pick the cosplay?
Williams: Well, I went to one before—like a Comic Con before, right? But I didn’t know I was going to one. All I heard was interview, or signing autographs. And so when I went to it, I’m like, “Oh dang, this is the perfect time. I should have brought my sword or I should have dressed up. I should have brought my jacket.” But this was the only time I was like, you know what? Let me just grab as much stuff as I can and just put it on. So there’s no real costume to it. I just wanted to dress up. Just make sure I just show my nerdiness. Leaf village headband, Akatsuki jacket, Sasuke’s sword. I’ve got Sasuke shorts, an Obito and Kakashi shirt, and then Gengar on my socks.
Q: Was Naruto the first big anime that you watched?
Williams: I’d say Naruto was my first one. Well, I was paying attention to Yu-Gi-Oh, but I wasn’t paying attention as a kid. You don’t really know what’s happening. Now, because I’m playing Master Duel and then watching Yu-Gi-Oh, you’re like, “This is not the same game (laughs).” I’m like “How are they doing this?” But it’s fine. Yu-Gi-Oh was my first one really. But Naruto was the first one I actually took seriously and watched watched.
Q: When did you watch it?
Williams: Mostly when I was in high school, really. And that’s when I was really going through a lot of adversity growing up. I didn’t have no dad; my mom was there. I really wasn’t talking to my dad that much, but Naruto and Gaara was my main person I could relate to the most at the time. Him versus Rock Lee, that fight. I was—that’s when I was stuck. I was just stuck on Gaara. I’m like, “Gaara is my dog.” That is it. And then I be still arguing this cause people—a lot of my friends love Rock Lee. So I just make sure I let them know, Rock Lee should’ve died. Just letting you know. His fake daddy saved him though. That’s all I know.
He was done for, was done for on the ground, done for in the hospital.
Williams: Man, that’s what I’m saying. But I just love Gaara, just how he did it. At the same time, I love how he went from how he was as a kid to how he is now in the future. It’s just a more stable, calm life. He’s not as angry. He got more of a sense of life now that he’s older. I like that about him, but I don’t like it because I don’t feel like it’s the same ferocity that he had before, the same old motivation, but it’s a different motivation. It’s a different type of energy and it’s a different type of power. You know what I mean?
So I just love the idea of like—most anime always push the point of like, the evil villain, he has power. He got all the power just cause he evil. But then, you know, it’s always the good person with the light. You know what I mean? People don’t think the light is supposed to win, but at the end of the day, the light is what wins the fight. Just cause you’re calmer. I feel like you’re free. You can be angry, but you’re not angry. You know what I mean? And I feel like anger, when you just straight going off of anger and fear — as a villain, that just restricts you to a certain limit as a character.
I just been working on just — I feel more free just cause when I was younger, I was angry a lot, like really a lot. And the more I grow, the more I’m getting older, I could feel myself finding more reasons for being happy and finding more reasons for not being angry. Being more grateful for waking up, being more grateful for what I do every day, being blessed that I’m able to just walk around, you know what I mean? And have my family here and be able to text my daughter. I just started taking the simple things as more important. I’m prioritizing happiness. I’m prioritizing things that are positive over negativity.
Q: So you had your own anime character arc for yourself?
Williams: Oh yeah. Like I always say, “I’m in my own anime,” really. And it’s really just going about it and just how I want to be, how I want it to be. It is all up to my mental. It’s all — you know, in anime, they’re mostly talking to themselves anyway, in their head. So it’s all up to you, how you want to talk. Do you want it to be positive? Do you want to be negative? If it’s negative, usually it doesn’t get you nowhere. If it’s positive, you’re able to see yourself get places more. So I just learned that. And it’s so simple, yet a lot of people still choose to pick the negative way, because it’s the easiest way. [ . . . ] And the hardest way is looking at yourself in the mirror and trying to figure out “What can I do to make myself better?” And acknowledging the things that I did wrong, acknowledging the things that aren’t good for me right now, and then just try to not do those anymore. Keep taking those away and learn more positive, consistent habits. So that’s pretty much what I’ve been on, just trying to be happier, learn how to be blessed, learn how to be humble about the stuff that I got and just keep living life to be pretty much like a light in a world full of darkness — that’s my favorite thing to say.
Q: Yeah, that’s a real good message. When you were first watching Naruto, did your friends also watch anime or are you the main one watching it?
Williams: No — so my friends now, the ones that I watch anime with—which is crazy—my friends that I talk to right now, we play video games a lot. I see my friends mostly on video games. If they on, then that’s when I talk to them. But most of my friends are younger than me. Back in high school, they mostly seen me as the senior, like the big dog. So I was gone when they was like juniors and seniors and stuff. And then we really didn’t connect back until I came back from college, really — coming back from college and seeing them and playing the game. But they watch anime too. They love everything. And that’s the crazy part. That’s why we connect. We can play video games, we like anime, no judgment. We can be ourselves, be nerds. And nobody is portraying themselves to be something that they’re not. So that’s why I love my friends. I love us. [ . . . ] I’m grateful for them just because I know I can always call on them. And I’m just grateful for my my tight circle. We ain’t trying to act like the cool cool crew, nothing like that. We just enjoying life as God intended it for us.
Q: You think it’s gotten easier to be an anime fan nowadays versus back then?
Williams: Man, my God. Man, it’s literally because of — You know, kudos to to Megan Thee Stallion for what she do, but yeah, it’s just different. She do a lot for getting anime out there. I just don’t like [the fans] who be talking about anime that don’t know nothing about anime. It be the city girls that have nothing to do with anime that be like, “What? Why is she dressed like that? Why does she look like that?” They don’t even know why she look like that. […] She’s cosplaying for the wrong group (laughs).
For me, I just try to like — at work, like at training camp and stuff like that, people who know me — because I say it in interviews, if you have any anime [gear], I see it so quick, boom. It makes me come to you first every time. If you have something anime-related, that means you know me as a person and you respect me as a person. And so I’m gonna come to you — and I don’t even want them to even give it to me. It’s more of them just having it. But most of the time they’re just great people and they give it to me. And so I take what they give me, I make them sign it. I put it in my game room, just so they know, you part of my game room now, you in there. And then I sign whatever they want, whatever you need. Cause you brought something that’s like, that’s personal to me, you know? So I do my best to give that person whatever they want. They want a shoe today. They want a sock. They want the towel that I just practiced with. You can have it.
And it’s funny because the people around who aren’t anime people, they still be trying to throw their stuff out there. I’m like, I’ll get to y’all, but I’m going to the nerds. I’m going to everybody who has anime first because they know me, you know what I mean? [ . . . ] Because you see a lot of — and you try not to put everybody in the same bucket, but there’s always people who make it bad and mess it up for everybody. You know what I mean? And so it’s always those people who literally want you to sign just cause they gonna go sell it. They gonna do something with it that’s literally not the reason why I’m signing that. You know what I mean? I like signing things for people who are genuine. It means something to you. It helps you in some type of way. It motivates you in some type of way. So you can go out in the world and be your own anime character. Those are the people who I really enjoy signing stuff for and just being around.
Q: You mentioned games a couple of times. What games do you play?
Williams: Guilty Gear Strive. Ooh, that’s my, that’s my — Guilty Gear Strive, baby. Elph, I can’t say her name right, but Elphelt, Elphelt Valentine. Since she came out, that DLC — kid, I be rushdown’ing everybody, boy. And she is a rushdown character. I love it so much. Her and A.B.A. A.B.A be going crazy too, and I’ve been getting better with using the board, like the arcade board.
Q: Did you ever play any Naruto video games?
Williams: Oh, I played them all. Naruto, Ninja Storm. I think — what are we up to now? I basically played them all. My favorite people to use are: Pain — I just like doing the Akatsuki special move on everybody.
Q: Just jump ’em?
Williams: That’s exactly why I keep doing it. And then I use Gaara just cause I just like seeing the Grand Sand Mausoleum getting thrown on somebody. And then what’s the dude that Gaara was fighting that had the bones on him?
Oh, Kimimaro.
Williams: Yeah. I do like him too. Oh, he’s cool. Yeah, he’s pretty cool. And that’s the only time that I like Rock Lee is when he came back and fought him with the drunken fist. That’s the only time that Rock Lee was okay to me, but he’s still a turd. [ . . . ] I got to watch Boruto. I didn’t watch Boruto yet. I turned into an old man. As soon as I seen Boruto, I was like, nope, nope, nope. And then I see these people getting older. I’m like, they look so weenie now, like they can’t do nothing. So I got to see what Rock Lee does. Cause I want to see if he’s still doing the drunken stuff. But I don’t think he is.
Nah, he’s not.
Williams: Oh my gosh. That was like his best thing! That was his only thing. If he was drunk and then opened the gates? Oh my gosh. But that’s why he’s a weenie. This is why I don’t mess with him. He gets on my nerves.
Q: Do you have any favorite out of the newer generations of anime? Which ones have you watched?
Williams: Well, for some reason, people have not seen this one, but I think it’s just cause of where it’s at. [ . . . ] So I like Record of Ragnarok. I like Buddha. I like Jack the Ripper. I like, who was the last one in there? Buddha, Jack…and Thor. Thor was going crazy. Yeah. That first fight, just the faces, the animations on there, especially with both of them fighting. Oh, I be trying to get that picture on a cleat or something, but I can’t. Cause it was just moving too fast, but that’s great animation. I love that show just cause, I mean, it’s a lot of talking and it’s a lot of backstory, but it’s a great show. It’s just great to watch. And I just love the characters. Jack the Ripper was my favorite one though. I love the villains. Oh yeah. Like his, and I just love his power, how he sees the emotions on them. And if you really watch that backstory, that’s a cold backstory, for real. [ . . . ] But I love villains though. Like I love Blackbeard from One Piece. He’s playing chess, while everybody else is playing Duck, Duck Goose. Yup. Like he has two of them right now going crazy. I’m not even there yet. I’m still only at episode 1003. And so I’m still pushing. But I can’t wait to get back to what Blackbeard is doing.
Q: Some anime like Dragon Ball — or even Yu-Gi-Oh — have always been kind of mainstays in the Black community, I feel like. Even people who aren’t nerdy will watch them and be cool with it. Why do you feel that is? And do you feel like that’s gotten more true with more anime over time?
Williams: Not all of them. Like I still feel like people who don’t watch anime still specifically only know Piccolo, ’cause he’s “Black.” Goku, ’cause that’s all they’ve seen. Vegeta, maybe. I don’t think people know who Gohan is barely, you know? They all probably think that’s the same person. I don’t think they even know Naruto. They don’t know nothing Naruto. They just know the word Naruto. That’s it. Nah, they don’t really know much. But my thing to help people who—and it’d be mostly for the Black community who don’t know nothing about anime. Most times, especially for hood friends, you gotta give them Baki. You gotta give them fighting anime that’re about regular fighting, no powers, just regular human stuff. Yeah, they like regular human things. They don’t like you to have super powers and go crazy. So Baki is the best thing if you’re trying to get people who don’t know anime, who like fighting, who like UFC or anything like that. That’s the easiest one to get them into.
We’d like to thank Jamaal Williams for taking the time to speak to us about his love and passion for anime as well as his perspective on how it’s affected his life. He really brings forward a great series of lessons about taking character growth to heart and living as your own anime character. You can catch him in other interviews spreading his love of anime further or on the field this upcoming NFL season. We’d also like to extend our thanks to Crunchyroll for helping to put the interview together.
Featured image via @goodeatz_jman on Instagram
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